#Spanking Round Table: Where Does Your Spanking Fancy Come From?

Welcome to the newest Spanking Round Table Discussion hosted this week by Spanking Romance Reviews and Joelle Casteel.

Here are the questions that Joelle presented to us.

.* How do you understand the difference between an ownership- or a humiliation-focus in writing and/or in real life?
* If you live some level of DD, BDSM, include spanking in your relationship- do your practices focus more on ownership or humiliation?
* When you’re reading spanking fiction, do you have a preference for either of these focuses? Or does it even matter to you?
* And of course, feel free to add your own comments and questions- after all, I come to this conversation as a reader of DD/spanking fiction, but an author of BDSM fiction.

I will try to answer them and add my own thoughts into the mix. I want to start off by saying I don't think there are right or wrong answers to any of these. I think it is a matter of perspective, personal experience, and most importantly semantics. I believe the terms used today are misunderstood in the context that they are used. While I do not consider myself owned I do want to be loved, cared for, and dominated. I desire a partner that has more say so than I do, but who does it with our mutual best interests in mind. Though for me personally the term owned has negative connotations to the point of possibly being a trigger (unless used exclusively sexually) I understand that being owned to one person is the same as being under the care of a loving HOH or Dominant to another. Maybe the word means the exact same thing or is similar enough to be comparable with subtle differences.

Humiliation on the surface does not seem to be comparable to being owned. It's not an either/or situation. However, in the context of someone defining being owned as feeling loved and cared for I can see it's opposite affect. Humiliation is one of those words that are used in the spanking community that have multiple definitions. Humiliation is defined on Wikipedia as:

an abasement of pride, which creates mortification or leads to a state of being humbled or reduced to lowliness or submission. It is an emotion felt by a person whose social status has just decreased. It can be brought about through intimidation, physical or mental mistreatment or trickery, or by embarrassment if a person is revealed to have committed a socially or legally unacceptable act. Whereas humility can be sought alone as a means to de-emphasize the ego, humiliation must involve other person(s), though not necessarily directly or willingly. Acting to humiliate oneself may be linked to a personal belief (as with mortification of the flesh, with some religions), or it can be part of erotic humiliation where the belittling activity provides emotional and/or sexual arousal or heightened sensation.

While I can see where Joelle is coming from in seeing humiliation as an unloving act in reading certain aspects of the above definition. I think the fine line is where the individual person defines it and the affect it has on the person who feels humiliated. I would feel humiliated in a negative way if my husband dressed me down (called me out/lectured) in public. It would erode my trust. While the humiliation that many of us spoke about during the last round table discussion was the kind of humiliation that comes with being humbled or submitting. Certain acts of being taken in hand, disciplined, or even certain sexual acts may create a feeling of embarrassment or exposure and a deep desire to submit, but it is not the harmful type of humiliation. As long as our boundaries are being respected it is a loving gesture. 

Last discussion's topic for me falls into the deliciously humiliating realm. I may not be able to get beyond my inhibitions to try this type of play without my husband's dominant act. I personally like to be actively taken in hand. I like the dominance and the feeling of not being in control. So we add these things into the punishment category. It works because it creates a deep feeling of submission. I am not naturally submissive and I like to be made to submit. That is part of my kink. It has to be done in a firm but loving way or I would not feel safe. 

In spanking stories I like for the dominant/hoh to be firm and loving. In these stories I prefer one partner being in charge with the other partner submissive but cared for, valued, and listened to. Domestic Discipline is fraction or discipline focused and that is what I enjoy reading the most (although I do like a lot of variety.) I enjoy reading about the discipline in detail, especially spanking scenes. Mild non-con is hot to me in fiction. (The real life solution to this is consensual non-consent. Aka: a blanket permission. True real life non-con would have me calling the police!) In these stories the heroine tends to eventually if not at the time feel safe and cared for and even turned on by this. If there was ever true humiliation I would not enjoy the story, but the kind of humiliation that leads to being humbled and learning is hot to me. 

In summary I think that many differences in the community boil down a couple things. One big one is semantics. Our differing definitions and connotations of certain words. That is hugely prevalent even with those that come from similar backgrounds. Another is whether the relationship is Discipline/submission focused or Submission/sexual bdsm focused. Don't get me wrong, for many couples who practice the former it is sexual as well, but in a much more subtle way and that is a whole other topic. I think in the end when the differences come to the forefront of the conversation we have to take a step back and decide okay this might be negative for me, but is positive for them and that is okay. Live and let live and try to find your common points. We are all valid and we should stand proud in what we like and who we are. There is nothing wrong with that.

#Spanking Round Table: Anal Punishment, Hot or Not? #Anal #spankinground

It seems like it's been a long time since I've participated in a Round Table discussion. These discussions are always so much fun! Thank you Spanking Romance Reviews for hosting such thought provoking and fun topics!

There is something about anal punishment that makes my heart beat faster, my breath quicken, and that turns me on like almost nothing else. There was a time when spanking alone did that to me and certainly still does, but when combined with that little bit of extra spice it launches me right out into orbit.

It seems that once upon a time spanking authors for the most part kept their books strictly to spanking. In the last few years something has been changing. Authors are branching out into even more taboo areas; extending the discipline to make it just a little bit naughtier. In the same way that rectal temperature taking gave me a little extra thrill when watching a spanking video the launch into anal punishment in books has done the same for me and more.

A few years ago I stumbled onto Jennie May's Church of the Illuminated series. Wow! Talk about taboo. The moment one of the HOH's inserted a finger into his TIH's rectum to get her attention during a lecture was one that I haven't been able to get out of my mind since (and it's something my husband teases me about to this day!) There were special implements made to spank that special area and more. Something clicked that day and I will admit the tamer novels have lost a little bit of their appeal although there are always exceptions.

Anal play and anal sex don't do the same things to me. There definitely has to be an element of dominance and authority. Whether it's anal spanking, ginger root, creams or soapstick discipline count me in!

Now, I know not everyone agrees. I have several friends who love a good old fashioned spanking novel and would prefer anything spicier to be kept out. What are your thoughts on the subject? What is the thing that gets your heart pumping the fastest in your favorite erotic novel?

Round Table Discussion: Domestic Discipline

Round Table Discussion: Domestic Discipline

I have spanking desires. I always have. I have been intrigued by DD (although it wasn’t called that yet at that point) since I was just barely an adult. Having a worthy male (my Husband) master me is irresistible. I long to be swept off of my feet and over his knee if need be. I like the idea that he can help me let go of everything that weighs on my mind all of the time, that he can help center me in a way that I have trouble doing for myself when left to my own devices. I also love that when he does “master” me all of that to do list falls to the wayside and I can focus 100% on him. Otherwise the “to do” list wins all too often. Sad but true.

My husband and I have been practicing DD for 5 ½ years. I think the way it looks in our relationship has changed every single year, sometimes consciously and sometimes subconsciously. At first we were all in. I surrendered to him completely. I vowed to obey him 100% all the time. We started with a few laid out rules and worked our way to more. By the time a year was up we had a nice list going. We had weekly maintenance & we worked discipline out in various ways until we found what worked for us. Weekly maintenance helped us get used to spanking/being spanked. For awhile that is when discipline happened as well. We used a penny jar system. If I earned a spanking I would have to add a penny to our jar. Pennies were worth one minute of spanking each. As soon as we were able we settled up.

CDD appealed to me the most during this time because there were so many amazing resources to read and work on. I have always been someone who needs both the head and the heart to work in synch (and let’s not forget the bottom.) I needed to study, read, & work through material to put my focus where I wanted it to be. Christianity has an abundance of resources. Mainstream did not. For two years we were well seated in the CDD label. At a point we were ready to expand our horizons. We were changing (my groups were changing too) & we were exploring new aspects of DD. We at that point moved on to LDD (Loving Domestic Discipline, which has evolved so much since the term was first coined.)

DD is a three-fold flame for me. First it creates order out of chaos for me. It keeps me well grounded and motivates me to physically “do life.” Secondly, the intimacy it creates is intoxicating. DD has enhanced our authentic communication, healed & eliminated any walls that we have built and quickly keeps new walls from forming, and allows an outlet for passion that builds up inside.

Every year new levels and layers are revealed of needs that can be met with DD. Some years it is household functions, others it is peeling back the layers & healing parts of us that are hurt or broken and creating new & healthier habits and still other years our focus is our sexuality and intimacy. Sometimes it’s all of this at once and others DD is just running in the background habits so ingrained that we don’t even realize that DD is still functioning, but yet it is there all the while.

I no longer label myself. We are not cdd, ldd, bdsm, or anything else. We are Jeff & Corinne. We use DD in our marriage & we incorporate all sorts of other things in for fun as well. That does not define us though. In all honestly I think labels shmabels. At some point labeling yourself only boxes you in. At first what felt freeing and like a light bulb moment becomes restrictive. As you explore yourself and your partner you find that you want to explore and incorporate things that don’t fit inside the box (a self imposed box might I add.) My advice at that point is NOT to compare yourself to others, but to get rid of the dang box!

If you want to mix sex and discipline there is nothing wrong with that! Conversely if it works better for you to keep it completely separate then by all means that is what you should do. If you want to add in butt plugs, ginger root, and frontal spanking there is nothing to stop you but yourself. Those who tell you it is wrong or not DD are wrong themselves. It just isn’t for them which is more than okay too. If corner time feels abusive then do not use it. If writing lines in addition to a spanking is the only way to really get through then do it. You can have as tame of a DD relationship as you desire or as spicy. And even if you play and are a spanko at heart you can still enjoy a very successful DD relationship. It’s all in the way that you map it out. If you only use spanking twice a year, yes, you are still in a DD relationship. It is normal to go through long periods of time without any discipline or even mention of DD. Life happens. I wouldn’t stress about it. It will circle back around.

DD does not solve all of life’s maladies. In fact it can become a malady itself. What I think DD helps accomplish is good communication skills. It lends a hand to breaking down walls of old outdated self preservation & leads to true, honest communication about everything. As you practice, this becomes something that is ingrained and bleeds into all aspects of your marriage and life. In order for DD to be successful you must communicate. All of those old habits of communication have to be reworked, relearned & replaced with healthy habits. Boy that is hard work! Worth it though! If you think that all of a sudden he is going to become the hoh of your dreams and give you rules & take you over his knee and everything is going to be perfect then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. There are moments that will come straight from your dreams. However the rest of it is let me say it again, hard work.

He has to get used to spanking the love of his life which is something he has been taught from day one never to do. You have to learn to submit when you absolutely do not want to and let me tell you that isn’t easy. You also may think you know how you will react to being told what to do and spanked, but you will surprise yourself from time to time. I know I have. Never fear you will get through these humps. The most important thing is to be honest and be willing to hear the other person out. It’s possible that he’s going to spank too hard (or too soft,) that you will revert to childlike behavior (this seems to be something that many of us go through for a bit. Trust me it will get old even to you,) he will forget that he’s in charge; you will forget that he’s in charge, and you both will fall back into old habits. There will be times where you both get it perfectly and it will be everything you ever imagined and more. DD can be such a beautiful thing. It is a very romantic way of life at its best. To me it’s worth it every day of the week.

Be sure to visit Spanking Romance Reviews to see my host post & check out the rest of the discussion at the links below!

Round Table Discussion: Feminism & Spanking

This is how I feel about my spanking needs & my freedom to express them. Having this outlet makes me feel like I have super powers. I can accomplish anything. Spanking gives me the outlet I need & focuses me in a way that I am a much more productive human being. I am grateful beyond measure that I have this option in my life. After all, even Wonder Woman needs a good spanking every now and again.

I feel like all things healthy, empowering, & good boil down to one thing…choice. Feminism has gone a long way to provide that choice to women. It was not long ago that women were owned first by their fathers and then later by their husbands. They had no choice except what was permitted by those in charge of them. They had no real voice at home or in public. There were no repercussions if either of these men hurt or abused them on any level.  While it’s true that families remained intact far more often than they do today, & it was socially acceptable for wives to obey their husbands, these two things do not equal happiness While it would be nice to have my chosen lifestyle weather in the bedroom or as a whole relationship style with my husband to be accepted and not ostracized by mainstream society I also value my choice in the matter heart and soul. I value my freedom and ability to choose what kind of life I live to the molecules of my being. Feminism has done wonders for this world.

At the root of the matter, though, I am a humanist. I value human rights above all else. I think my DD sisters who feel nostalgic for a time when tearing down your husband wasn’t socially acceptable have a point. A woman having equal rights & value does not mean that treating men with disdain should be acceptable too. Love & respect in marriage & society would be ideal. It is also what I strive for in my own life. My husband is not stupid & neither am I. Neither of us deserves to be treated as if we are.  I don’t think going back in time will solve this dilemma. It trades one set of mistreatment for another. In history there are many examples of the pendulum swinging. This is just one example of that. Many times when a group of people have been oppressed for a time once that oppression is lifted it is natural for the pendulum to swing in the other direction.  We over compensate for past slights. Eventually that pendulum will rest right in the middle. I am hoping we will find that happy medium in this realm soon.

I am so grateful that my sisters & brothers before me fought for my human rights & my rights to choose. Because of that fight I get to choose to explore a spanking fetish & lifestyle. My husband and I were able to choose to explore spanking in the bedroom & later choose to incorporate a DD lifestyle by agreement in our marriage. Surrendering in this set of circumstances makes me happy. Having my rear end reddened both in the bedroom and as discipline helps make my world go round. Just as choosing to be a stay at home mom, writer, & holistic health care practitioner have added great quality to my life. Without feminism I would have none of this.

Before I end this I also have to address the thought that is floating out there that choosing to be spanked or to submit to someone else is in some way dis-empowering to females & a setback to feminism. As a choice that is incredibly empowering to me who is to judge what empowers whom? Just as it was unfair many years ago to be controlled by one set of very limiting beliefs on what is wrong and what is right it is just as wrong today no matter which side you are on. Being taken across a man’s knee to be spanked is an intimate act that should have been agreed upon at some point previously. Consent is the key factor. Your views may not be my views. Your wants may not be my wants. That is the beauty of a free society. We have the obligation to remember to live and let live. It may not be your choice, but it may very well make someone else happy.

What I have taken out of all of this is that if I want everyone to live freely and be accepted in the life choice they make with anyone else who is also actively agreeing then I owe it to myself & the world around me to live authentically. I must be who I am not just at home, but in the world. The more we show the world how many people & how many choices there really are the more the world will come into balance.

Please visit Spanking Romance Reviews by clicking the icon below to check out our hostess, Casey McKay's main post on this fabulous topic!

Round Table Discussion: Role Play in a DD Marriage

Round Table Discussion: Role Play in a DD Marriage

Welcome to this weeks Round Table Discussion - Community, Spanking, & More! Spanking romance author, Renee Rose will be leading the discussion on Role Play. I always love reading Renee's point of view on topics like these because she is always so authentically herself with her sexuality. The last Round Table discussion was deeply thought provoking for me. I enjoyed reading so many perspectives! This week's discussion is bound to be a blast! Don't be shy! Jump in and share your own thoughts about Role Play. I would love to hear your perspective as well! 

I am a role play convert. This last year my husband and I added role play to our spanking repertoire. Wow! I can’t believe what I’ve been missing out on for so long! In years past role play just didn’t appeal to me. I wanted the real thing so to me that meant distancing myself from anything that would be in any way pretend. I think in my mind I thought it would invalidate the domestic discipline relationship we were trying to create if we “acted out scenes” in any way. I am a firm believer that there is room for spankings of any kind in a DD relationship. It took time, but now that includes mine as well.

For as long as I can remember little scenes would pop into my head. They all revolved around spanking and domination and let’s just say I have a very fertile imagination. Earlier this year those little scenes that I was always creating in my head made their way onto paper. As I let my husband in on these fantasies I was writing he became very interested. In fact he couldn’t get them out of his head. My fantasies turned into his fantasies as well and then he even created his own.

By this point we had fully explored Domestic Discipline. During that period every single day was filled with excited adventure and discovery of these new roles and new life we had embarked on. At first it even felt like we were playing roles. You’ve heard the term “fake it until you make it.” That’s exactly what we did. We had discipline, we had maintenance, and we even had sexy spankings. 

However, there reaches a point in DD for many couples where the need to be spanked is still there, but it is counter intuitive to try to earn one for punishment. When one gives into that urge it is affectionately called bratting. If the only way you are getting your spanking needs met is through punishment it is going to take a negative toll on you within your psyche and self esteem or your marriage because you are striving for any attention even if it’s negative, which then leads to HOH burnout. Maintenance tends to not give the thrill of the energy exchange that earning a punishment & being completely dominated does. I knew I needed attention, release, and that adrenaline/endorphin rush that came with our early DD dynamic. However, we were busy with life and did not want to micromanage to the point where negative attention was the only way we had our needs satisfied. So when he suggested we act out my fantasies I was stoked!

It’s really funny but the idea had never even occurred to me that we could act out all of my little scenes! It almost feels like winning the lottery when I realized that I could slip inside the pages of my favorite books for a short time. We needed to create re-connection time. What better way and one we were  guaranteed to really anticipate, than role play. And so it began. He could spank me as hard as the scene warranted, we could try all of the new “punishments” (ginger root!) and other sexual acts that we had always wanted to within the scenes of our fantasies in far more creative ways, discarding the idea that it had to be fair or any of the other have to’s that real relationships are constrained by. We could just play and explore and be satisfied. We found that my need for submission and his for dominance were enhanced by this role play. It met a need while still allowing DD to do its job….to keep balance in our marriage.

Our role play adventures reconfirm our roles, and meet our needs in a deeply intimate way.  They are sexy, fun, and not even one bit awkward after you realize the places it can take you that are just not open to you in everyday life (well maybe a little bit, but you quickly lose yourself in the role.)

It’s such a relief to shake those every day shackles and inhibitions off to partake in the forbidden fruit every once in awhile. How freeing to be whoever and do whatever you want. Any adventure your wildest dreams take you on is yours. If you can’t imagine yourself possibly submitting to or performing something in your daily life these little mini vacations allow you to do just that without any real life consequences.  You have the absolute freedom to explore anything your mind can think up, meet any need you have, as long as your partner is willing.

I truly think role play has a place in every intimate relationship. It gives you an outlet for all of those things that are just not appropriate to express in everyday life. For DD couples it can give you an outlet to avoid many of the pitfalls that most couples experience in meeting those spanking and re-connection needs without bratting or possibly feeling restless when DD has done its job and there is no reason to spank otherwise. It’s often hard to release those inhibitions, but gosh does it feel good when you do!

Check out all of the Round Table Discussion posts with this linky list! Make sure to read Renee Rose's introduction post on Spanking Romance Reviews!

Round Table Discussion – Submission Is the Definition of Sexy

I am so excited for us all to come together again as a spanking community for week two of the Round Table Discussion - Community, Spanking, & More! This week our very special host is Natasha Knight who is one of my favorite authors and dear friends! This week we were asked to define what submission means to us. Be forewarned, this is a bit steamier than you may be used to from me. :-)

I am not a natural submissive. I am the master of my own mind, ruler of my body, independent, spirited, and I like to be in control. It takes a special touch to draw out my submissive state. It takes a worthy touch. I need to be able to respect him in order to submit to him. Once he has that respect all it takes is a hand in my hair drawing my head back commanding my attention and a look in his eye. It’s a little predatory, a little no nonsense, and sexy as hell!

There is nothing like the dance of a dominant and a submissive. To me it’s intoxicating. For me submission is a huge gift and it is also a very primal thing. Not just anyone can bring out this gift and take use of it. My inner submissive can only be called up by her exact dominant match. There is an air and energy to it, and there is almost a scent. Once called up she will be that essence of sheer female to his essence of sheer male.

If he can bring it out I will do anything that he says. My inner submissive finds his inner dominant worthy and vice versa. Submitting to a man who can command my very soul is the greatest privilege on earth. I will suck his cock, offer my ass, and do anything he bids. He is my Master.

I have to say there is a little something (or a big something) to being made to submit. Punishment makes my knees go weak. I just can’t help but test the boundaries every now and then. I crave the feel of him making me submit to him. I enjoy the chase. There is nothing more humbling or that will make me feel more submissive than being ordered panties down over his lap for a sound bare bottom spanking, hopefully with a hairbrush in his hand.

In fact that’s why domestic discipline works so well for me. When doing the dishes and paying the bills is a constant turn on and I have an intimacy with my Husband others long to have then something must be working. When I test those boundaries and he takes me in hand I will lovingly serve every one of his needs and lavish him with my adoration and passion for him. Until the next time I need to be taken in hand and then the primal dance begins again.

Now make sure to visit Spanking Romance Reviews for more of the Round Table Discussion on what submission means to them! We have some amazing guest bloggers that you don't want to miss! Click the graphic below and enjoy!

Round Table Discussion - Spanking Beginnings & Fantasies Come True

I am so excited to be participating in a new feature over on the Spanking Romance Review Blog! Several of us have started an ongoing Round Table Discussion pertaining to hot button issues of the spanking community! Every two weeks we will discuss a new topic that is near and dear to the spanking community’s heart. After you read this blog head on over to SRR’s blog to see our debut post and find the links to the other participant’s responses!

This week’s discussion is led by yours truly! I've always been fascinated by how others discovered their interest in spanking & how they have explored it. So on that note here is this week’s discussion questions:

1.  When did you first know you were interested in spanking, and the surrounding ideas that come with it?


2. When did you finally cross over from fantasies to bringing it into real life? (Or has that yet to happen?)

I've been a spanko I think my entire life. From Ken spanking Barbie or Barbie spanking Barbie it's always been there. I remember looking up spanking in the dictionary over and over and in every new dictionary I could find. I tried to incorporate spanking with a few of my high school boyfriends, but I really don't think they thought I was being serious. I did have one spanking experience with my long time high school boyfriend. We were just joking around and it turned into so much more. I literally went weak in the knees when he pulled his belt out of its loop’s and made me bend over for a spanking. I had never been so turned on in my life. Sadly that relationship was over, but it left a burning desire in my mind (and fantasies!)

I met my husband a couple years later. We had a whirlwind romance and were married within only two months (with three kids between us.) There was a lot of playful spanking, but with so many kids under five we were just never really able to fully develop this kink. Throughout the years after we had a fight I would fantasize about him taking me over his knee and spanking me soundly then placing me in the corner. I didn't tell him during those years about the desire because I was terrified about giving up that kind of control. We were also both pretty staunchly feminist, so I kept those fantasies to myself.

At about the five year mark I started re-awakening sexually. The spanking play began again and it was great! One day as I perused the web for spanking stories and videos I stumbled across a CDD web page. Let me tell you it resonated from the top of my head to the tip of my toes. It was a huge light bulb moment! I remembered seeing Bethany's community (before she created Blushing Books.) They had a forum where couples practiced DD but it wasn't clearly defined as DD is today. This CDD site was a few pages and it described to a T exactly what I wanted and needed! I could combine my sexual need for spanking with my goals for in marriage and our household. I was a hopeless slob, hormones got the best of me more times than not, and I wanted his dominance so very much. I have found that DD appeals to me because I like having a purpose for the spanking. I like adding it into daily life. It makes getting things done so much more appealing. I am ever the practical Capricorn!

It turned out I was too chicken to follow through with bringing DD up to him then. I tried, but backed down at the first look of incredulous. I didn't even take the time to explain. It wasn't for another four YEARS that I made my second (and final) attempt. I enjoyed the play, but I wanted the real thing. And I got it! Hubby reacted well to my second attempt. I explained way better this time! I even got my first discipline spanking that week. It's funny that I forget what it was for now. I just remember how weird it was. It felt so scripted and like we were playing pretend. He had me bend over the bed, lower my panties, and he spanked me a little bit with his hand and then used the ping pong paddle about 10 times. He kept asking if he was hurting me and if I was okay. I remember coming away feeling like I hadn't been punished at all. He was so scared that he was going to bruise me or hurt me for real. It took him a little bit of time to get past that, but let me tell you he has gotten past it!!

Over the years DD has taken different forms. In the beginning I really wanted that DD fantasy that I had always read about in books. As time went on we realized that didn't really work for us. It works better when we pick our goals or spankable offences and if I ask him for a spanking when I feel guilty or when I need it. He has become so much more confident and dominant. And boy is it HOT!! He has dominance in the bedroom honed to a science. YUM YUM YUM! We are very adventurous and in DD and out of DD have ventured to many other aspects aside from spanking. I'm not sure how to explain why spanking works so well when I am a spanko, but they do. This whole dynamic works well. There is a difference between punishment spankings and maintenance, stress relief, or play spankings. Sometimes it's just the tone of the whole thing. Whatever it is it works for us.

Fantasy has become reality in many ways. I know that I have many more fantasies to come true in the future as well! That’s why I keep reading those smoking hot spanking romances! So spanking romance authors keep on writing and fueling those fantasies!!

How did you first discover you were interested in spanking? Have you experienced that moment where fantasy becomes reality? I would LOVE to hear your experiences as well!

Visit the rest of our circle by clicking HERE.